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Post by Inanimate on Oct 9, 2015 10:37:00 GMT -8
Advancement (Your advancement is the largest number of generic mana in the cost of a permanent you control.)Here is the link to the previous discussion thread about Advancement.Use this topic for talking about Advancement in general. If you have a concern that you feel warrants a new thread - for example, one that involves multiple mechanics at once, or is particularly noteworthy such as proposing a significantly different version of the mechanic - make a new thread for it. Otherwise, please use this thread. Advancement is meant to represent the flavorful theme of progress, and works well with artifacts and a potential colorless theme. Currently we're discussing the 'trackability' of advancement, and how to differentiate it from devotion, if at all.
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Post by reuben on Oct 18, 2015 16:25:17 GMT -8
A question as I haven't followed the discussion of Advancement very closely: Does "number of generic mana" mean the CMC or reverse devotion? If I have a 4RR creature then is my advancement 6 or 4?
Also which of these is what we want it to be?
As for cards:
Soldier of Progress 2UW Creature - Human Soldier (U) ~ power is equal to your advancement. */4
Know No Bounds 5UU Sorcery (R) Draw cards equal to your advancement.
Guardian of Kaladesh W Creature - Human Soldier (C) As long as your advancement is 4 or greater, ~ gets +2/+2. 1/1
Thopter Canister 1 Artifact (U) 4, T, Sacrifice ~: Put X colorless 1/1 Thopter artifact creature token with flying onto the battlefield. Where X is equal to your advancement.
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Post by jaytreat on Oct 19, 2015 6:41:12 GMT -8
In this example, 4.
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Post by Inanimate on Oct 21, 2015 15:50:08 GMT -8
I think at common we could have advancement work like Metalcraft - with a single number, say '3', being of interest - and have it work more like devotion at higher rarities. This could solve the noted trackability issues (if there end up being any)
We should also test it to be just like devotion and see how that changes the game, if at all.
I'm curious whether choosing 'high generic' is as interesting as choosing 'highly devoted'. I think it might be interesting, sure, but AS interesting? Probably not.
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Post by reuben on Oct 22, 2015 21:37:12 GMT -8
Potential alternate wording that avoids confusion of "generic" with "converted mana cost" Advancement (Your advancement is the largest amount of colorless mana in the cost of a permanent you control.)
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Post by Inanimate on Oct 27, 2015 8:52:58 GMT -8
It helpfully emphasizes the fact it cares about colorless too, which is good.
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AlexC
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by AlexC on Nov 15, 2015 14:59:39 GMT -8
In the previous thread, Inanimate mentioned that advancement would ideally be differentiated from devotion somewhat, in particular by being not so much about the Gray Merchant-style one-shot effects, and more about continual checking. Inanimate also said "I doubt we can find any continuous advancement effects that we could use at common, unfortunately, but we can certainly try."
So in the spirit of that trying:
Celestial Student 2/4, 3W, common As long as your advancement is 4 or greater, ~ has flying.
Progressive Scholar 2/1, 1U, common {T}: Draw a card, then discard a card. Activate this ability only if your advancement is 4 or greater.
Toxic Experimenter 1/1, 1B, common Flying Whenever ~ attacks, if your advancement is 4 or greater, defending player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
Halberd Welder 3/1, 2R, common As long as your advancement is 4 or greater, ~ has first strike.
Sylvan Channeler 1/2, 1G, common {T}: Add {G} to your mana pool. If your advancement is 4 or greater, add {1}{G} instead.
Although it's not what was asked for in the last request, I do also like a number of possible one-shot uses of advancement, like this:
Vapour Researcher 2/3, 3U, common When ~ ETBs, if your advancement is 4 or greater, you may return target creature to its owner's hand.
Sparklancer 2/1, 2R, common When ~ ETBs, if your advancement is 4 or greater, you may have it deal 2 damage to target creature.
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AlexC
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by AlexC on Nov 15, 2015 15:08:07 GMT -8
I had all those examples stick to advancement >= 4 for consistency and simplicity. But I do really like the idea of a chain of (permanent) spells, each of which has the colourless in the cost to turn on the previous one's advancement check. Something like:
Faithful Warden 1/3, 1W, common Vigilance Whenever ~ attacks, if your advancement is 2 or greater, gain 1 life.
Coiling Bolas Artifact - Equipment, {2}, common Equip {2} As long as your advancement is 3 or greater, equipped creature has "{1}, {T}: Tap target creature."
Celestial Student 2/4, 3W, common As long as your advancement is 4 or greater, ~ has flying.
Twinblade Chargers 3/3, 4WW, common Whenever ~ attacks, if your advancement is 5 or greater, it gains double strike UEOT.
Not sure if that's actually practical, or if it'd be way too confusing in practice. But it does appeal to me in the same way that Rebel chains or that kind of thing do.
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Post by Inanimate on Dec 2, 2015 18:05:45 GMT -8
One issue I've recently realized regarding Advancement is that, while Devotion works with a single highly-devoted permanent, or a large menagerie of lower-devoted permanents, Advancement is far more narrow. It strongly pushes you to a single permanent - it has no ability to 'sum up' smaller permanents.
Is this a problem? We got rid of that because it was hard to calculate at a glance. I like this implementation, but I fear my attraction to it is more designer-y than player-y, if that makes sense. Hearing the report from Reuben's playtest just further convinces me we might have a problem with Advancement working, but not being exciting.
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