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Post by droqen on Oct 9, 2015 10:38:34 GMT -8
Surge — Whenever you activate a nonland ability, you may pay COST. If you do, trigger an EFFECT. Natural — COST: EFFECT. If this is the third time you activated a nonland ability this turn, COOL EFFECT. Quintessence — Whenever you spend five or more mana to cast a spell or activate an ability, EFFECT. Here is the previous discussion thread for Surge and natural magic mechanics in general.Use this topic for talking about Surge and other potential natural magic mechanics in general. If you have a concern that you feel warrants a new thread - for example, one that involves multiple mechanics at once, or is particularly noteworthy such as proposing a significantly different version of the mechanic - make a new thread for it. Otherwise, please use this thread. Surge is meant to flavorfully represent 'natural magic', the magic-users of Kaladesh that do not rely on artifice or machinery to use magic. This has lead us towards themes of creatures with activated abilities, but this doesn't have to be the case. It flavorfully represents fugitives of the state. Current discussion is about whether Kaladesh needs a mechanic for the natural mages at all, or whether they can simply be an archetype or unnamed subtheme.
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Post by radicaljackal on Oct 22, 2015 8:55:27 GMT -8
Surge - Right now the trigger feels a bit vague and weird. I think it synergizes a little too when with mana rocks. I would change it to only see activated abilities on creatures.
Natural - I think I like this but I'm not sure what kind of deck it is pushing toward. I wasn't playing much in Lorwyn when there were a few of these but they made it into Modern Masters so that is a good sign. Soulbright Flamekin gave the mana back so it could be played with other creatures that want to be activated 3 times. Just brainstorming, what if you combo this with "monstrous" or transform tech so that the player is only being told to invest all of his/her mana into the creature once, maybe the better version isn't actually bigger but it gets to activate once for free on your upkeep.
Quintessence - My first thought was that I liked it but now I'm not sure. With ferocious the player could make a curve with Frost Walker and Alpine Grizzly early if they wanted, or just wait for their big creature and keep it alive. I think Quintessence would lead too many new players down a bad road, trying to make a deck that draw lots of 5 cost spells. Maybe I am wrong and it just means we need plenty of cheap creatures with expensive abilities.
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Post by Inanimate on Oct 22, 2015 12:05:47 GMT -8
Radicaljackal, that second idea sounds quite interesting to me, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. Mind making an example?
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Post by radicaljackal on Oct 22, 2015 13:05:25 GMT -8
Now that I am reading more closely I realize that Natural says "third time you activated *a nonland* ability this turn", I was still thinking it said "third time you activated *this* ability this turn"
Natural Pinger 2R
Creature - human wizard
1R: CARD deals 1 damage to each opponent. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn put an awakened counter on CARD.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if CARD has an awakened counter, CARD deals 1 damage to each opponent.
2/3
The idea being that you put it in your ramp deck so that you have something to do with extra mana. I like cards like Flamewave Invoker, but usually when you draw the second one it is redundant, even after you have lots of mana. If you draw 2 of these you can sink your mana into one this turn and the other next turn and start enjoying the extra "activation". You always have something to do with an extra 2 mana and you also have something that might be worth spending all of your mana on instead of playing a real card on turn 6. But once you have done that once you are no longer incentivised to put all of your mana into it again, just the leftover mana after your real spells.
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Post by Inanimate on Oct 22, 2015 13:16:34 GMT -8
Ahhhh that is actually quite interesting radicaljackal. I wonder if we could do this:
{COST}: {Effect}. If this is the third time you activated this ability this turn, automate it. (If this isn't automated, put a charge counter on it and it becomes automated. At the beginning of your upkeep, if this is automated, you may activate its ability without paying its mana cost.)
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Post by reuben on Oct 22, 2015 22:07:57 GMT -8
I kinda love automate.
Even if we don't have it as a whole keyword I'd love it as a single card design or a cycle.
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Post by Inanimate on Oct 27, 2015 8:51:59 GMT -8
Agreed. Automate seems interesting and flavorful. And since it's a keyword action there's lots of things you can do with it.
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Post by jaytreat on Oct 27, 2015 9:54:44 GMT -8
Torchbender 2R
Creature - human wizard
1R: CARD deals 1 damage to each opponent. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, transform CARD.
1/1
//
Pyrotechnician
Creature - human wizard
RR: CARD deals 1 damage to each opponent and each creature they control.
2/2
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Post by jaytreat on Oct 27, 2015 9:57:06 GMT -8
Firemaker 1R
Creature - human wizard
2R: CARD deals 1 damage to each opponent. If you've activated abilities of three creatures you control this turn, revolt.
The Revolution Is Begun—At the beginning of your end step, if you've revolted, activate an ability of CARD without paying its mana cost.
2/1
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Post by Inanimate on Oct 27, 2015 14:40:06 GMT -8
Oooh, that last idea is a neat way to meld the natural mages and Revolution. Interesting idea.
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Post by reuben on Oct 30, 2015 2:51:23 GMT -8
Quick note did we ever consider the following mechanic?
Swell — Whenever you activate a nonland activated ability with T in its cost, EFFECT.
OR
Surge (This gets +1/+1 until end of turn whenever you activate a nonland activated ability with T in its cost.)
This allows it to play with both Revolution and Canisters and not require extra mana commitment though is a little more comprehension complex than Surge.
For commons etc this could be simple effects like +1/+1 and is super easily expandable to large effects at higher rarity while still allowing for "you may pay X" effects for the very large effects if we need it.
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Post by Inanimate on Nov 3, 2015 10:05:41 GMT -8
Ah, I swore I'd addressed that one. I find the wording really difficult to grok. "Activate a nonland activated ability with T in its cost" is a lot of word-soup for newbies, in my opinion. That's the big problem facing many of these abilities, to be honest.
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